Ordinance Committee Meeting Minutes from April 4, 2017


APRIL 4, 2017

Committee Chair Mr. Hoefle opened the meeting at approximately 6:00 ­­­p.m. Members of the Committee in attendance were Mr. Hoefle, Mr. Meyers and Mr. Spotton. Present from Council were Mr. Zuren, Mr. Kasunick and Mr. Evers and Council President Ms. DePledge.

In attendance from the Administration were Mayor Morley, CBO Menn, City Engineer Gwydir and Law Director Klammer.

Also in attendance were members of the public.

Members of the audience that were recording the meeting:


Update the Storm Water and Sanitary Sewer Ordinance.

Mr. Hoefle: Mr. Gwydir?

Mr. Gwydir: We are a part of the Storm Water Program for Lake County and this is just an update on our Illicit Discharge and the Connection Control. These are updated and consistence with the EPA Permit for Storm Water. This one is no different. There is nothing real special about it. The Water Shed Partners put it together and worked with the Health District and the County Health Board. Over time we have been involved with the Storm Water Program before. It just grows and grows and grows and this is part of it. Partly to keep people from dumping things in the water ways and there are big fines for that. Mr. Klammer correct me if I’m wrong you put this in a new section on its own?

Mr. Klammer: I took Mr. Gwydir’s and cleaned up the things that were missing on there. I have a final version and I will give Mrs. Simons with the Chapter and everything. It didn’t change anything.

Mr. Hoefle: So between you and Mrs. Simons you will be adding the community?

Mr. Klammer: Yes it is already done.

Mr. Hoefle: All of that is taken care of. Are there any questions from the committee in regards to this? Do you want to move it forward?

Mr. Spotton: Yes.

Mr. Meyers: Yes.

Mr. Hoefle: We will move this item forward.

There were no further questions or comments.

Chapter 761 “Entertainment Device Arcades”

Mr. Hoefle: Mayor Morley would you like to add on to this?

Mayor Morley: I will talk real quick and then Mr. Menn will talk. We continued to have people contact us that want to open these up. Basically what happen was Willowick changed their “Internet Cafes” to “Sweepstakes Terminal Cafes” now. Mr. Klammer put it under “Entertainment Device Arcades” Chapter 761. From what I’ve gathered and discussed it is basically the same thing as the Internet Cafes it is just a different name. The games are still the way that they were ran before. I will let Mr. Klammer talk about it he sent another email and I couldn’t open it with all of the other problems that I’m having.

Mr. Hoefle: Mr. Klammer?

Mr. Klammer: They are allowing them again across the state. I should say that the cities are allowing them across the state. I would just tell you that in my other life I defend the guys who get charged with these things. I could just tell you that the Department of Public Safety goes crazy when they hear that cities are passing ordinances allowing these things. To them they are plainly illegal. My concern is we allowed them last time and we allowed these business and landlords to invest in these businesses and then they come in and they are declared illegal. A lot of times they end up getting raided and people get charged with crimes. With that being said it is certainly an imperfect system that the state is allowing us to be in the middle of. The ordinance that is circulated and this is the one that is almost word for word what Willowick uses and what most of these cities seem to be using around the state. Part of the reason as to why it slowed down was what this ordinance puts on the cities to set up list of certified testing facilities. Where these places can go and have their machines tested and determined that they are lawful. By my estimation there really weren’t any…certifying testing laboratories in existence? Apparently there are a few now. We had talked with Willowick and asked if they have their list of certified testing facilities and they said no we never came up with one. With that being said there is a…I have from a prosecutor in one of my cases. He sent me a list of machines that they have found illegal. So if you are going to do what I would have Mr. Menn do is to post that at the City. Saying no ifs, ands, or buts’ and these were found illegal by some city in the State of Ohio…in some prosecution. There are these certified testing laboratories certification. Where there is presently pending administrative code under the Ohio Casino Control Commission there are Administrative Code provisions that are out for public comment. The public comment I think was due March 15 from what I can tell this all that I have received from the prosecutor. March 15th for Public Comment on the Administrative Code Provisions on how do we certify these independent testing laboratories? It seems like everything is kind of in the works towards the state coming up with some rules to define what constitutes independent testing laboratory. We would then have an ordinance that says that if you want one of these things you have certification from an independent testing laboratory. I think right now we could find a couple that other cities use so that we can fill in that gap. In the mean time if it is something that you wanted to do…and we went so far as to get the list from the Ohio Department of Public Safety through the case that I had. Of the ones that have been declared illegal somewhere in the State of Ohio. You are kind of tightening it up about as well as you can if it is something that you wanted to allow. A lot of cities are doing it and it is certainly a good revenue maker. We survived under the internet café for a couple of years and it made a lot of money for the city.

Mr. Hoefle: Mayor Morley?

Mayor Morley: We kept the fees that we had before at $5,000.00 fee for the application. Then it is $5,000.00 every year and we did the same that we did last time it is a $45.00 a month fee for each machine. For everyone that is new on Council at the time I think that we had four or five and it was $160,000.00 of revenue a year. After DeWine signed off on it that obviously went away. Right now I think that we have only one that has applied.

Mr. Menn: The same person comes in periodically. I’ve had numerous calls throughout the last couple of years.

Mayor Morley: Willowick has two or three that are open. One is the old Taco Bell and one is at Shore gate and I know that they had not talked to them. They’ve kept the same licensing fees too.

Mr. Klammer: They don’t seem to bring in another type of crime. Even when we had the Internet Café over there wasn’t.

Mayor Morley: What I found out the last time was and would go into them and just look…it’s a lot of the older people who don’t want to go down town to gamble. Most of these places have food for them so they are eating and they are doing whatever in the quarter machines or sweepstakes. Everyone is happy and we’ve never had to go policing anywhere.

Mr. Menn: I’ll be honest I don’t know much about them. I have never done any of these so the only thing that I would say on locations. I look through this and on page nine on the locations I think that we should be a little more specific on what kind of location we these. My recommendation would be like Vine and part of Lakeshore….something like that. I think that is where they were before.

Mayor Morley: One was on Lakeland where Sneaky Pete’s was and one was next to Two Bucks, and the other was on Vine Street toward East 361st Street. One was on….

Mr. Evers: Lakeshore?

Mayor Morley: Not Lakeshore there was one in another plaza towards Vine Street.

Mr. Menn: There was one over by Jack’s?

Mayor Morley: By Rally’s there was one over there.

Mr. Menn: I think that we might want to take a look and spell out a couple sections as to where we want them. It is a little vague where it is now.

Mr. Klammer: There might be a….

Mr. Menn: Yeah B-1 would be that and like I said all of Vine Street basically. It really wouldn’t deal with Lakeland. It is all industrial or M district. It would just be a thought that we should put what zone that we want these in or where we don’t want them in.

Mr. Klammer: That’s fair enough.

Ms. DePledge: I think that it sounds like a good idea.

Mr. Menn: Like I have said I don’t know enough about them whether to say that it’s a good or bad idea.

Mr. Klammer: Shouldn’t we have arcades…

Mayor Morley: We have machines in the bars.

Mr. Menn: Lakeshore District refers to the B-1 district.

My. Klammer: I can look at that. If that is something that you want to do I think that anyone of our zoning ordinances already talks about arcades doesn’t it? It might be in the Zoning.

Mayor Morley: Amusement devices that are in the bars they have a license for them.

Mr. Klammer: If that is something that you want to do and you want to nail it down we can tighten that up in the mean time.

Mr. Menn: I am bringing this forward with the help of Mr. Klammer and the Mayor, because we’ve been receiving calls on it.

Mr. Hoefle: We have only had one solid person so far?

Mr. Menn: One that keeps coming in. We’ve had calls.

Mayor Morley: We’ve had others but they never did any follow up on it.

Mr. Menn: I just told them “no” and they went away.

Mr. Hoefle: One of the questions that I had back when we had the Internet Sweepstakes Café’s was could we limit how many we have in different districts or different zones? Instead of them popping up and all of a sudden you have half a dozen of them. Can we do a limit on how many?

Mr. Menn: I think that is 100 feet from boundaries that are…

Mr. Klammer: We can.

Mayor Morley: Get a licensing fee with the software. They are not allowed to be so close to each other too is what I thought.

Mr. Menn: Correct and this is the first draft of this. I don’t know many of you got to really go through it.

Mr. Klammer: I thought that we had a provision and I will have to look again that prohibited one from being within a certain number of feet from the other. It might not be in there.

Ms. DePledge: There is a provision that no license should be granted to an entertainment device arcade that would conduct its business at a location that is within 100 feet from the boundaries of a parcel of a real estate, having situated on it a school or public library.

Mr. Klammer: I thought that there was one within 100 feet of another entertainment device arcade. That is the way that we could add it to just say within another 100 feet of another one or 1,000 feet.

Mr. Menn: For 100 feet you are looking at about two parcels or maybe three parcels down.

Mr. Klammer: The current zoning for a B-1 amusement or recreational services conduct only within an enclosed building including assembly halls and bowling. It’s a conditional use permit for a B-1 and its being permitted in a B-2. We could just use that.

Mr. Menn: That’s fine. I just think that we should clear it up a little bit.

Mr. Klammer: If it is something that you want to move forward with we can tighten that stuff up for you. I’m not sure you need another committee meeting on that then right?

Mr. Hoefle: Are there any thoughts for the Committee or anyone on Council?

Mr. Spotton: If it’s going to bring in revenue for the city I am just concerned about having a bunch of them together. A lot of these places show up and they do the path of least resistance on signage and everything else and they look like a fly by night place. What goes on in there I don’t necessarily have a problem with but the imagery I have a problem with and what the buildings look like.

Mr. Klammer: When we did it the last time…now that you mentioned it I think the ordinance last time said no tinted windows.

Mayor Morley: I think that they had the tinted windows the last time.

Mr. Menn: On the old ordinance I think that I read that you did have something like that.

Mr. Klammer: We could add that.

Mr. Spotton: If they fall into what the rest of the plaza and it looks like it belongs. Again a lot of these companies show up and they slap a generic sign up as cheap as possible.

Mr. Hoefle: I think that they would have to go through the Architectural Review Board.

Mr. Spotton: To go through everything.

Mr. Menn: It’s a pre-existing building.

Mr. Spotton: Even the one at Taco Bell they slapped a sign on the roof and it still looks like a shabby building. That’s what I don’t like.

Mr. Klammer: The building is going to look like that no matter what.

Mr. Spotton: I understand that but…

Mr. Klammer: We could at least make a…

Mr. Spotton: It doesn’t help clean up Vine Street if it’s there.

Mayor Morley: the ones that we did have on Vine Street were all cleaned up. You really could’t even tell that they were there.

Mr. Klammer: We could tighten it up with no tinted windows and no flashing…

Mr. Menn: I think that it was in the old ordinance that you guys had on the old devices. I would take what was written on that and add it to this.

Mr. Hoefle: Mr. Meyers do you have anything?

Mr. Meyers: No.

Mr. Hoefle: Does anyone on Council have anything? Ms. DePledge?

Ms. DePledge: I agree with Mr. Spotton and Mayor Morley saying and Mr. Evers actually said “I don’t have a problem with tinted windows”, but I wouldn’t want someone hanging up a sheet spray painted with a sign on it. I kind of agree with Mayor Morley and I would want flashing lights and I would like it to blend in with the retail establishment if it’s in one.

Mr. Klammer: I think that we can do that. Do we want to do 1,000 feet from another one?

Ms. DePledge: I think at least 1,000 feet 100 is kind of silly. I think that 1,000 feet at least keeps you at a different location in our city.

Mr. Klammer: One thousand feet doesn’t get you…there is only 5,000 feet on Vine Street right? So it doesn’t give you a lot of locations.

Mr. Hoefle: Per plaza?

Mr. Spotton: Five hundred is too tight.

Mr. Klammer: One thousand feet is…

Mr. Farwell: Am I allowed to ask a question?

Mr. Hoefle: Mr. Farwell?

Mr. Farwell: I don’t anything about these things but is it one machine in a bar? Like you have the capacity for one person to play the machine or is it…

Mayor Morley: Usually it’s about…a lot of them have about forty machines. It is basically a computer that you sit at.

Mr. Evers: Computer gambeling.

Mayor Morley: It was $45.00 per machine and most of them had 50 machines. When we were saying that we were generating revenue it is because 50 time $45.00 is $2,000.00 a month.

Mr. Farwell: They’re not drawing crime and taking a load on the police force.

Mayor Morley: We had no problems with them.

Mr. Farwell: Bringing in bad people why would we want to limit it at all? Why don’t we just let whoever wants to come in and…just increase the price? You know what I mean? Supply and demand. Increase the price to $200.00 a machine.

Mr. Klammer: I will give you a couple of options.

Mr. Hoefle: Mayor Morley I have a question. Do we have the fees that Willowick was charging? I forgot look and see what they were.

Mayor Morley: It is the same as we had the last time $5,000.00 for the license, $5,000.00 a year, and $75.00 per machine.

Mr. Hoefle: So nothing has really gone up then?

Mayor Morley: If we want to adjust and I wouldn’t go to $200.00.

Mr. Farwell: If we get to the point where we have to many then you guys have the authority to increase the price.

Mr. Hoefle: Mr. Evers?

Mr. Evers: For some reason I seem to remember the city having to give these guys some money back; when the state shut them down.

Mayor Morley: We gave them money back after the Attorney General shut them down.

Mr. Evers: We should put in the contract that it’s an at risk. You pay the money and you’re not getting it back.

Mr. Klammer: We pro-rated it a year.

Mayor Morley: we pro-rated because when they pay their license and if I recall they shut them down in March or April…so we prorated the $5,000.00. We gave them some money back. We could put in if we want to say it’s their risk.

Mr. Evers: It’s their risk.

Mr. Menn: It’s their risk.

Mr. Evers: If the state comes in and shuts them down again…

Mr. Menn: Once they pay that’s it.

Mr. Hoefle: I agree with that.

Mayor Morley: I don’t have an issue with that. I think we knew that it was coming and they were signing their agreements and instead of them shutting down early I think it was part of the…I think the businesses came and talked with the former Mayor about it.

Mr. Klammer: I at least and in spite of our rocky relationship with…he is still a long time business owner. There is a question of fairness there.

Mayor Morley: I don’t have an issue. If DeWine of whoever comes in again and says that they are gone again then they are gone again.

Mr. Hoefle: Are there any other question from the Committee, Council, or the Administration? Mr. Klammer you will work with this?

Mr. Klammer: I don’t think that you will need another committee I’m sure that I can tweak it a little bit before the next Council Meeting. If you don’t like it at the Council Meeting we can do it at Council Meeting after that. At least it is up on the agenda.

Mr. Hoefle: We will leave it with you then and you will work with Mrs. Simons.

Mr. Klammer: Unless you want another committee meeting.

Ms. DePledge: That’s up to your committee.

Mr. Hoefle: Maybe you should just get it all tweaked and get everything ready for us and we can schedule another meeting. So that we can go over it and give it to us in advance and we can review it. If we are all in agreement then.

Mr. Klammer: One Thousand feet and I will tighten up the appearances and zoning.

Ms. DePledge: Forfeit the licensing fee?

Mr. Hoefle: We will keep this in committee for final…

There were no further questions or comments.


There was nothing under Pending.


There was nothing under Miscellaneous.


There was no one who wished to speak.


Mayor Morley had nothing to report.

There were no further questions or comments for the Mayor.


Ms. Schindel was absent and excused.

There were no further questions or comments for the Finance Director.


Mr. Klammer had nothing to report.

There were no further questions or comments for the Law Director.

The meeting was adjourned at 6:40 p.m.


APPROVED: __________________________

DATE: ______________________________

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